I am great graddaughter of john criddle of criddles treacle factory and have some fascinating documents relating to the treacle and merton village as well as vegetarian society minutes etc. It is nice to read of people’s memories of the place.

I came across this site by chance. I served my apprenticeship to Mechanical Engineering, in Love Lane starting in September 1958. I remember Gerry Hughes very well as I worked in the boiler house (Steam & Power) for a major part of my time in Tates. Jackie Barrow I also remember but he worked in the Recovery House if I’m not mistaken.
Both were good fitters. Gerry always seem to have things firmly under control. Although he was AEU he never pushed his views to us apprentices but always could be relied upon to explain and discuss “The Union” when approached. I last bumped into him in Southport in about 1970 or so. 

I emigrated to Canada where I am now retired. I was last in Liverpool in April 1978 and did go down to Love Lane to see the old place before leaving the city to return to Canada. At that time all looked well the refinery was as busy as ever.

I was shocked when I eventually learned that they had shut the place down. My time in Love Lane showed me that the workforce were productive, loyal and mostly long service with many family ties. I can imagine the hardship and devastation caused by the closure. I would not have even remotely considered Tates capable of such a move. At least not when I was there.

As for my time there, it provided me with the training and knowledge which carried me through to retirement. The tradesmen, such as Gerry, really were good and their expertise has, I’m sure, been passed on. Many tricks- of- the trade I was shown, I was able to use here in Canada. All apprentices whether fitters, electricians, motor mechs and later, process, were well looked after. Although I didn’t have to participate, the company even provided driver training for those who hadn’t got their driving licence by their last year. Just as I finished my time in 63 the Apprentice Association even had the use of a company vehicle(Land rover) which could be borrowed for approved trips. How did a company which was capable of such generosity change so completely and negatively impact their workers? Unbelievable!! 

Lockfields was also mentioned. As part of my apprenticeship I worked in the garage for three months or so but it was, I think in Hornby Street? In particular I remember the four wheel Latil tractors which had Meadows engines.

I still regard myself as a Tates apprentice and I think working there was the most formative part of my life. I would like to take the opportunity to send regards to any of my old workmates who may be around to read this. We were lucky to have been part the Love Lane Family.

.
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Predictably, two of the links from my last posting didn’t work (well, not on my computer, anyway…) so to save anyone the trouble of copying & pasting, I’ll post the texts of the documents here.

The very first link was for an article from the “Liverpool Echo”, February 15th 2008, which mentions the 1984 closure of Tate & Lyle at Merton Grove. It read as follows;

‘Sugar refining giant Tate & Lyle said profit before tax in the four months to January 31 were slightly ahead of expectations.

In a trading update today it reinforced the board’s view the second half performance, to March 31, will now be broadly similar to that of the first six months.

The group hopes to benefit from a new energy bill in America which requires the use of more ethanol, used in the expanding bio-fuels market.

Profits were slightly ahead in the sugar division.

Tate & Lyle had a major sugar refinery in the city’s Love Lane, dating back to 1867, but axed 1,570 jobs when it announced its closure in 1981.

The company blamed new European sugar quotas which punished it for over capacity and chairman Lord Jellicoe said the refinery had been the “victim of EEC membership”.

In 1984 the group announced the closure of its syrup making plant in Merton Grove, Bootle with the loss of 90 jobs.

But it still retains three Merseyside sites, two in Birkenhead docks including a liquid terminal and storage facilities, and a molasses terminal in Bootle’s Regent Road, employing about 60 staff in total.’

The 8th and 9th links down don’t work either- which is a pity, as they allude to Merseyside treacle manufacturing’s contribution to the recording industry.

The 8th link was for what seems to be a catalogue of products made by Durium Dubrico Limited/Sound Distributors Limited, part of the “Hit of the week/Durium Discography”, 6th Edition. To discover more about Durium’s business, read here-
http://www.archive.org/details/52wk15
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator:“Hans+Koert”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit_of_the_Week_Records
(You never know- the above links may just work for a change…)

The philanthropic John Criddle seems to have latched on to this idea. Page 51 of the Durium Dubrico catalogue (which was represented by the 9th link in my last posting, had it functioned) reads thus-

‘S.D. 29 STICKY HISTORY (D79)

The round 4” records were made for the W.E.CRIDDLE & SON, Ltd with an advertisement on the reverse.

S.D. 27
On the reverse a picture of a tin < CRIDDLES OLD FASHIONED BLACK TREACLE > and the text < GOOD HEALTH! We all desire good health. “How are you?” has become the usual greeting between friends. To enjoy good health it is essential to take into the system daily a certain quantity of the lifegiving salts found in many vegetables and plants. The sugar cane is particularly rich in these salts and Criddle’s Old Fashioned Black Treacle gives you all the goodness of the sugar cane.
WRITE FOR FREE RECIPE BOOK AND HEALTH HINTS W.E. CRIDDLE & SON, Ltd. LIVERPOOL 1 PLEASE PASS THIS RECORD ON TO A FRIEND   S.D. 27 > //

S.D. 28>
The text on the reverse in three sections:

< CRIDDLE’S BLACK TREACLE
For rosy cheeks and sparkling eyes
Take Criddle’s Treacle when you rise
A morning spoonful every day
Adds zest to work and pep to play >

< CRIDDLE’S GOLDEN SYRUP
Crumbs will make a birdie chirrup
Milk makes pussy purr for joy
Criddle’s lovely Golden Syrup
Pleases every Girl and Boy. >

< KINDLY PASS ON THIS RECORD TO A FRIEND AND WRITE FOR A FREE BOOKLET CONTAINING RECIPES AND VALUABLE HEALTH HINTS TO W.E. CRIDDLE & SON LIMITED Liverpool 1   S.D. 28 >. //

Text on S.D.29 <

What do you know about [CRIDDLE’S OLD FASHIONED
BLACK TREACLE ] and its uses? [CRIDDLES FINEST GOLDEN SYRUP ] and its uses? Perhaps very little. SEND FOR OUR FREE BOOKLET OF RECIPES AND HEALTH HINTS TO W.E. CRIDDLE & SON, Ltd. Liverpool 1. KINDLY PASS ON THIS RECORD TO A FRIEND   S.D. 29. >

The [ text ] is written on two tins of CRIDDLE’S.’

.
. MERTON GROVE.

The Tate & Lyle syrup factory at Merton Grove in Bootle closed in 1984, three years after the Love Lane refinery.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Tate+&+Lyle+in+sweet+result.(Business)-a0174880347

It was easily identified by passengers on Southport-Liverpool trains, as an industrial chimney on the site displayed the words “Treacle for Health” in huge letters on the side facing the railway. One wonders what the Dormouse from “Alice in Wonderland” would think of this slogan…

`Once upon a time there were three little sisters,’ the Dormouse began in a great hurry; `and their names were Elsie, Lacie, and Tillie; and they lived at the bottom of a well—’
`What did they live on?’ said Alice, who always took a great interest in questions of eating and drinking.
`They lived on treacle,’ said the Dormouse, after thinking a minute or two.
`They couldn’t have done that, you know,’ Alice gently remarked; `they’d have been ill.’
`So they were,’ said the Dormouse; `VERY ill.’

http://www.aliceinwonderland.com/ch7.html

Originally, the premises were known as “Criddle’s Treacle Factory”.  William E. Criddle (1846-1930), sugar refiner and founder of the firm, was registered at 245 Vauxhall Road in 1899; his successor, John Frankland Criddle (1876-1961), is described in the National Archives as a “Socialist & founder of Merton Village, Ford, Bootle“. It seems as though John was attempting to emulate William Lever’s efforts at Port Sunlight, albeit on a smaller scale.
http://www.litherland-digital.co.uk/album_3/pages/jf_criddle_obit.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=1072-m920cri&cid;=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18#-1
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B5358

Another couple of references to John and Helah Criddle-
http://genchatfriends.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pals&action=display&thread=1855
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=138-612&cid;=-1#-1

Page 51 on this site (“Sticky History”) indicates that Criddle’s products were so hip under John’s benevelent reign that they eventually made it to the recording studio-
http://www.durium.opweb.nl/Durium Adv Cust Rec Disco.pdf

http://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESigG4eKwuOXBgshKwbNxoDqH_1eXBxagyM_6JMgI1JyaXUyj4nxmKBYKkhSwjEbrd9BdYQoD0Ilv0lNvJfUW-MX7tAYjTM7xV-pOOnQq_LmeKpwl1Y_JHi8dhL1jbbqoAyfLLmT&q=cache:PZM0g8kjcT8J:www.durium.opweb.nl/Durium Adv Cust Rec Disco.pdf criddle’s treacle&docid=a06d499c902f81633522f492d794bfb1&a=bi&pagenumber=51&w=800

John ran the Criddle’s Treacle concern from 1931 until 1939, when the company was taken over by United Molasses (and, subsequently, Tate & Lyle). It was, however, still known as Criddle’s- at least locally- during a tragic day during the Second World War when the factory was bombed and several firemen were killed by exploding vats of hot treacle.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/95/a5040695.shtml (Last paragraph.)

There are several references to both Criddle’s and Tate & Lyle here- on the interesting “Bootle Times” website- including the revelation that Henry Tate’s second wife, Amy, was 31 years younger than him. Er, phwooar.
http://www.bootlehistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20963&sid=39380538fa47c84cbffb657768452bbe

“warbaby” (a.k.a. Margery Webster, nee Barkley- currently resident in Victoria, Ausrtalia) was employed the Merton Grove factory when it was running under the Tate & Lyle name-
http://www.bootlehistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39521&sid=ff6e5295cdab65d0e207022d05e93047 (28th post down, 2nd paragraph.)

The Merton Grove chimney can be seen on these two photographs-
http://1.2.3.9/bmi/usera.imagecave.com/Litherland21/canalpic.jpg
http://1.2.3.11/bmi/i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr43/Sirob_bucket/p21StanleyRdBootle1960sSmall.jpg

The site is, apparently, now a car park for the “Buckie Bingo Hall”;
http://www.buckinghambingo.co.uk/bootle.html

(I hope to Heaven these links work once I’ve posted this document…)
. .

Hello again, Ron…

I heard the message regarding “Ron from the John” on Roger Phillips’s BBC Radio Merseyside programme (6/8/10). Roger almost immediately identified yourself as the subject of this message. I believe your brother was responsible.

Regards.

.
. Here’s a document from around 1987-
http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/rep_pub/reports/1987/fulltext/210c05.pdf

Paragraph 5.1 refers to refers to the closure of four T&L refineries, including Liverpool.

In Paragraph 5.5 it’s pointed out that, by 1985, “about 42 per cent of Tate & Lyle’s total turnover in sugar production and refining arose from activities outside the United Kingdom, and of the overseas turnover of £324 million some £268 million arose from sugar production and refining in North America.”

There are also references to T&L’s financial interests at the time in sugar factories around the globe;  Canada, USA, Portugal, Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Belize and Belgium (Paragraphs 5.6 to 5.14).

Paragraphs 5.16 and 5.30 allude to Ridgway’s, a tea company taken over in the 1970s by the Tate & Lyle group and based at Speke. Colin Moynihan was Ridgway’s chief executive between 1980 and 1983.
http://www.debretts.com/people/biographies/browse/m/2094/Colin Berkeley Moynihan+MOYNIHAN.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Moynihan
(If I remember correctly, the Ridgway’s factory closed in the late 1980s or early 1990s. The “Echo” described it as Liverpool’s last link with T&L, but this was not strictly true- there was a United Molasses plant still operating in the north of the city. As a brand name, Ridgway’s still has a presence on Merseyside; it’s part of Typhoo Tea Limited, which in turn comes under the auspices of Premier Brands in Moreton.
http://www.ridgwaystea.co.uk/
But I digress.)

Of most interest to ex-Love Laners will be Paragraph 5.23 (“Employment”), which includes Table 5.2. (“Tate & Lyle employees in the United Kingdom”). The reader may notice a significant drop in the number of T&L workers in Britain between 1980 and 1981-  although, curiously, a mere 1,209 of those who “left” the company were classified as “Tate & Lyle Sugars’ employees”.

Read all of Paragraph 5.23- and weep…
. .

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Hi, Ron,

on 28/7/2010 you asked- “Where is history’s most famous sugar lump on his 61st birthday?”

Assuming that he hasn’t changed much from his early years, he’s probably practicing juggling tricks in anticipation of his birthday party-

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/3109193/Hulton-Archive

.

http://www.mr-cube.com/images/mr_cube_logo.png

Here are a few links which allude to the relationship between the Leeds and Liverpool Canal and the Love Lane refinery.

http://www.towpathtreks.co.uk/llc/liverpool_canal.html

http://www.canalscape.net/Liverpool Link/Liverpool Link.htm

http://www.galloways.org.uk/heritage/jh01hist.html

http://www.waterscape.com/features-and-articles/features/leeds-and-liverpool-canal-route-2/what-to-look-out-for-along-route-2

http://pressroom.ackura.com/LiverpoolBiennial/212-Art-for-Places—A-History-of-the-Leeds—-Liverpool-Canal-by-Mike-Clarke.aspx

http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/10/40/2246/index.htm

Last week (July 2010) I had cause to visit St. Catherine’s Hospital in Tranmere.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/314900
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:St_Catherines_Hospital,_Tranmere_2.JPG

Its most distinctive building, The Clock Tower- also known as “N” Block and/or the Admin Unit- was in the process of being demolished. It is (or was) a robust Grade II- listed building which has been in constant use since the for around the last 100 years or so. (The actual hospital site was formerly a workhouse, founded in 1865- a commemorative stone confirms this.)

The building will probably be replaced by another NHS facility. But what has this to do with Tate & Lyle?

Well, on a personal level, I was born at St Cath’s. But apart from that, the hospital’s Clock Tower building was the place where I worked in the next substantive job I’d had since leaving Tate + Lyle Transport.

The NHS employed me in 1989. Between April 1981 and February 1989 I had been unable to obtain a “permanent” position. And it wasn’t through lack of trying, either, since I’d worked in no fewer than seven casual/temporary or voluntary jobs over that period, for spells of anything between six weeks and 20 months. Such work, however, did not entirely preclude frustrating episodes of financial reliance on the state, the longest of which lasted 15 months (March 1982-June 1983).

And yet… when I was finished up at T+LT I was 23 years old. I’d left school with 4 G.C.E. ’O’ levels and 3 Certificates of Secondary Education, which- for Merseyside at least- was around average. I’d been a clerk, so my experience wasn’t too sugar-orientated to have been untransferable to another organisation. And my superiors at T+LT had been more than happy with my work, so references were no problem.

I was 23, with some qualifications and positive experience behind me- yet it took me almost EIGHT YEARS to find a “permanent” job. What must it have been like for a Liverpool Tate & Lyle refinery employee who found him/herself redundant at 43 or 53?

I may be venturing into controversy here, but I personally didn’t consider Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven to be a wonderful Prime Minister. Although I never met her at the time. And she’d hadn’t heard of me. We weren’t what you would call “close”.

http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/3/18/2011/index.htm

TATE AND LYLE SUGAR SILO, HUSKISSON DOCK-
http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/story/intro.aspx?storyUid=6
http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/story/slide.aspx?storyUid=6&slideNo=1
(Continue clicking “Next Screen”.)

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/docks/access/dock_history4.html
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/docks/access/image74.html

A couple of random images-

http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/3/18/liverpool-citycentre(3).html
(Click on photo/thumbnail bottom row, 4th from left.)

http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/tate-and-lyle-1960/

Fatal mistake in the opening paragraph here…
http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=43514575&cr=7

The T<driver’s name is Jimmy Hodgers, not Jimmy Hodges. He’d leave you out of his round in “The Bull” if you missed the “r” from his name.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-entertainment/echo-entertainment/2001/03/24/the-bull-dublin-street-100252-11982859/3/

Sadly, he became a widower during my time working with him.

I last saw Jimmy in 1987- at “The Bull”! I was showing my then-girlfriend- a university student- the remains of where I used to work (the refinery as well as T+LT), and we nipped into the pub for a drink before walking back to the city centre. And there he was.

Jimmy drove a Bedford TK “small van” during my time at T+LT, though the layman might refer to the vehicle as a “box van”. It looked a lot like this (only in T+LT livery, obviously);
http://www.transportphotos.com/road/photo/HuM0710

Jimmy’s van was fleet number 472, if I remember correctly.

I’ve found a few videos which may be of interest. (Please note that they may be preceded by adverts for modern products which last for between 15-30 seconds.)

The first video is from June-July 2010 and alludes to the U.S. takeover of T&L. However, London workers are reassured that their jobs are safe, Gawd bless ‘em-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyctwPj70U

The next one is equally Londoncentric. It’s from Pathe News, and refers to Tate & Lyle and the cane versus beet dispute- but not directly to the Liverpool refinery. This clip is dated as being produced between 1970 and 1979, so it’s probable a Labour government was in power at the time-
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=74184

And now, a current London T&L manager demonstrates the ignoble art of avoiding the question (at 0 minutes 23 seconds);
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x505ta_tatelyle-factory-tour_people
No, Mr. Clarke- the little girl asked “DID you have any other factories…?” and not “DO you have any other factories…?”.

Meanwhile, back in Liverpool, a reporter who’s done no research whatsoever refers to the Liverpool refinery’s involvement in BEET sugar from the Caribbean (0 minutes 9 seconds)-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpI85lW3BYU

And last (and also least), a not-very-good-song-at-all with vocal and pictorial references to T&L Liverpool between 0.46 and 0.48, which still doesn’t make it worth a listen-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atQ-Js0uMlU

Several Liverpool Refinery-related pics on these sites. Not very cheerful, but I suspect that’s what left-wing photographer “dave sinclair Liverpool” intended…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157621543427608/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157600355541618/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157601610621124/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157603820351060/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157605640878012/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157605994859836/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/sets/72157607179091727/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave_sinclair_liverpool_photos/tags/tateandlyles/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24187030@N03/2444105752/

TATE AND LYLE TRANSPORT, based at Lockfields at the extreme north end of Love Lane, was, in theory at least, a separate company to the refinery within the T&L Group. However, although there were a few blue and white T+LTD (Tate and Lyle Transport Distribution) small vans with fleet numbers in the fourteen-hundreds based at Lockfields, delivering non-T&L food products such as jam to shops in the late seventies, the Liverpool refinery was virtually T+LT’s sole supplier of freight. Consequently, when the refinery died, the Liverpool T+LT operation went with it.

It took me some time to find them, but here’s a couple of photographs of Lockfields-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/telefusionyorkshire/4272669782/
http://m28371m.fotopic.net/p37187111.html

These pictures were taken, of course, after 1981, by which time Crosville Motor Services- a bus company specialising in routes in the North West of England and North Wales- had succeeded Tate and Lyle Transport as the occupiers of the site.

The second photo shows the “fuel island”, with kiosk and canopy, on the left. This is where the vehicles refuelled with derv. (There was also a single [leaded] petrol pump.) Between the kiosk and the back end of the bus in the far background, a short stretch of the metal barrier separating the site from the Leeds-Liverpool Canal can be seen.

References to T+LT’s time at the site may be found here-
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mersey+Memory.-a0115740420 (The photograph referred to here was apparently published the 22nd April 2004 edition of the “Liverpool Echo”.)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7971/is_2004_April_22/ai_n33707113/ (See above)
http://www.dennisdart.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2023&PID=85993&title=strawberry-bus (1st contribution on this page from “infamy141”-4th post down)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/4166943979/ (Erroneously referred to in the text as “the former Tate and Lyle tanker depot.” Lockfields housed all types of T+LT vehicles.)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=“Employees+from+both+Love+Lane+and+the+adjoining+Lock+Fields”&hl=en&lr;=&as_qdr=all&filter=0

CROSVILLE’s time at Lockfields was troubled. If I may digress with a little post-T+LT (Liverpool) background…

On Sunday 26th October 1986, deregulation of bus services took place across all of the UK- except London. On Monday 27th October 1986, the financial “Big Bang” took place- in London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_(financial_markets)

I leave the reader to surmise which event claimed more front-page space in the London-based national newspapers. (Anyone who genuinely doesn’t know could approach Roger Phillips at BBC Radio Merseyside, as he was justifiably fuming about the media’s priorities at the time.)

One of the effects of bus deregulation (officially or otherwise) was a relaxation of certain aspects of Health & Safety. When Crosville- part of the National Bus Company up to 1986- brought in buses to Love Lane which didn’t feature power steering- and were thus deemed unsuitable for city centre services- the drivers refused to use them. As a direct result of this, Crosville closed its Lockfields operations in January 1987.
http://omnibuses.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html  (Please see entry dated Monday 4 December 2006.)

Eric Heffer, MP for Walton (1964-91) happened to notice this event-
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1987-02-23a.11.6
-as did Bob Parry, MP for Riverside (1983-97) [formerly MP for Scotland-Exchange (1970-83)].
http://www.theyworkforyoutheyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1987-02-25a.284.0

(Incidentally, Chris Loyden- the brother of Eddie Loyden, MP for Garston [1974-79, 1983-97] was an articulated lorry driver at Tate and Lyle Transport well before and up to 1981; their dad, Patrick, also drove for T&L.)

It seems that North Western Buses followed T+LT and Crosville to Lockfields in the early 1990s- the site, after all, was purpose-built for commercial vehicles. (North Western Buses parent company, ‘Drawline‘, appear to have bought up Crosville in 1989, if I’m following the post-privatisation story properly.) I have no idea when Lockfields was finally demolished. However, the following photo, titled “Love Lane Depot”  appeared on “Flickr” in 2009. In the “Comments” section, “The Sheriff of Kirkdale” hints that this was the old Crosville depot and perhaps the photograph was taken where the old Lockfields site used to be-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/auchenshuggle/4037388243/

A sharp bend between Love Lane and Sherwood Street is the only reminder of the entrance/exit to T+LT Lockfields. The following are repeat links, which I‘ve posted on this site before-

“This is the view down Love Lane (towards the refinery site) from where the Lockfields gates used to be. The just-about-visible road sign indicates a sharp bend where the public road veers left from Love Lane into Sherwood Street.”
http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/dale/loveln/love2.html

“The view down Sherwood Street, looking towards Great Howard Street (A565). The bright blue fence on the right indicates the boundary of the old Lockfields yard.”
http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/dale/loveln/sherwood.html

Both the above photos are from this site-
http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/dale/loveln/loveln.html

The current “Lockfields View” in the Eldonian Village is in approximately the right place to, er, view Lockfields- or at least, to view the old Lockfields site.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1G1DSGI_ENUK388&q=lockfields+view+liverpool&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq;=&hnear=Lockfield’s+View,+Liverpool,+Merseyside+L3+6LW&gl=uk&ei=uXAzTK7sD9OQjAe8lbyWBg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

And, semi-finally…

http://holmes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/crosville.htm

The two photos on the fifth row down were taken at Lockfields.

Behind “Bristol VRT DVL 391” the fuel island is visible. The long, pale building to the right of the picture is where T+LT vehicles were cleaned and washed down, usually at the end of the working day.

I don’t recall the orange tank surrounded by a wall standing alongside “Bristol VRT DVG 277.” However, on the far right of the photograph, a tunnel is evident; this allowed the Leeds-Liverpool Canal to flow under the truncated viaduct which accommodated the railway that ran north from Exchange Station (and, latterly, Moorfields). Again, the metal barrier is just about perceptible.

(It’s likely the pic of “Bristol VRT DVL 347” on the 6th row [left] was taken at Lockfields, too, but there’s very little detail of the site on display.)

A terse dismissal notice from Crosville Motor Services Limited, dated 24 January 1987, appears at the foot of the page.
http://holmes.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Crosville buses/crosville letter.jpg

LOCKFIELDS, NOT “LOCK FIELDS“;
T+LT, NOT “T<“.

It’s probably worth pointing out that, as far as T&L staff were concerned, the transport site was always either “Lockfields” (one word) or “The Locks”. And, yes, there was a lock very near the border of the yard on the Leeds-Liverpool Canal.

As far as I know, the abbreviation for “Tate and Lyle Transport” was always “T+LT” (with a “plus” sign) and not “T<” (with an ampersand).

SILVER ROADWAYS.

I wasn’t with the T&L group at the time of the apparent metamorphosis from Silver Roadways to Tate and Lyle Transport, so I still find the situation a little puzzling. Somehow, it doesn’t seem to be the case that one brand name replaced the other overnight in the early 1970s; geographical factors, especially in South Wales, seem to have precluded this.

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/545_1_1002661.html

There were still one or two items related to Silver Roadways at Lockfields in the late seventies- particularly thin rubber discs the size of 78rpm records bearing the SR logo, which served as the equivalent of today’s tea/coffee cup coasters.

The title “Silver Roadways Limited” was still officially associated with Tate & Lyle as late as 1989-
http://www.jordanwatch.co.uk/reports/details/00524462/tatelyleoperationslimited.html

PS- I got your message, Ron. I’ll be in touch via snail mail.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/833698-tate-lyle-sells-sugar-business-in-211m-us-deal

There’s an ironic symmetry to all this…

It’s obvious to all that, as this is written, we’re less than two months into the term of a Conservative-dominated government, but more business moves such as this one can only be expected.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100701-tate-lyle-sell-european-sugar-us-firm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tate-amp-lyle-to-sell-sugar-business-for-pound211m-2015427.html

Coincidentally, Baron Walker of Worcester, MBE, PC, died barely a week ago on 23rd June 2010. As Peter Walker, he was the Conservative Minister of Agriculture who threw his weight behind the UK’s sugar beet farmers’ cause in 1981, thus dealing a fatal blow to the Liverpool (cane) sugar refinery. This was hardly surprising; both Walker’s home and his constituency were in beet-growing areas. He went on to become Secretary of State for Energy- a position he held during the miner’s strike- and was responsible for supervising the privatisation of British Gas.

Ironically, Walker later became a director of Tate & Lyle in the early 1990s, prompting at least one sarcastic contribution to the BBC Radio Merseyside mid-day phone-in. As if trying to establish a record for audacity, he also had the astonishing impudence to join the board of British Gas.

On 6th May 2010 his son, Robin, was elected as Conservative MP for Worcester- Peter Walker’s former constituency.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10390810.stm

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/041707d4-8c0f-11da-9efb-0000779e2340.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/representatives/profiles/62794.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6974781.stm

How about this as an example of being “airbrushed from history”?

http://www.tasteandsmile.co.uk/ourstory.html

It’s as though T&L has never had any connection with Merseyside. In fact- as has been pointed out on the “Love Lane Lives” website- the company STILL has a few comparatively minor operating links in the area. Take, for example, this installation on the Birkenhead/Wallasey border.

http://j-eyres.fotopic.net/p57308340.html

http://j-eyres.fotopic.net/p63448329.html

http://j-eyres.fotopic.net/p63261551.html

http://j-eyres.fotopic.net/p63261552.html

Note the “UM” (United Molasses”) logo on the above photos.

The following pictures were taken inside the Wirral depot-

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/i136.photobucket.com/albums/q166/wirralpete/as.jpg

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/i136.photobucket.com/albums/q166/wirralpete/img028.jpg

This is the Google map reference.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?hl=en&rlz=1G1DSGI_ENUK387&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=tate+&+lyle+birkenhead&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=tate+&+lyle&hnear=Birkenhead,+Merseyside&cid=1099939326580226219

Actually, for all practical purposes the nearest railway station to the site is Birkenhead North (not Birkenhead Park).  Should you happen to find yourself on the roundabout linking the A5088 and A5139* near the Poulton (“Penny”) Bridge it would be impossible to miss the presence of Tate & Lyle- though it would be inadvisable to take your eyes off the road, since the roundabout concerned is an unusual shape and has a reputation as an accident black spot.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/street/WALLASEY_BRIDGE_ROAD_in_BIRKENHEAD_in_MERSEYSIDE_in_CH41_430070_401735.htm

There are four T&L Merseyside addresses on this up-to-date Tank Storage Association webpage.

http://www.tankstorage.org.uk/tsa-members/tate-lyle/

*P.S.- “A5139” also happens to be the code number of a synthetic sugar substitute- a coincidence probably not worth mentioning, but, still…

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?D7=0&N5=SEARCH_CONCAT_PNO|BRAND_KEY&N4=A5139|SIGMA&N25=0&QS=ON&F=SPEC

Well Done Ron/Seth - brilliant film, I’m going to watch this again with my little girl, real history…its the future.

This is the view down Love Lane (towards the refinery site) from where the Lockfields gates used to be. The just-about-visible road sign indicates a sharp bend where the public road veers left from Love Lane into Sherwood Street.

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/dale/loveln/love2.html

The view down Sherwood Street, looking towards Great Howard Street (A565). The blue fence on the right indicates the boundary of the old Lockfields yard.

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/dale/loveln/sherwood.html

I’ve found a few more images of old T&L wagons in some shape or form. Some are “works of art” or models which may be sold and disappear without warning; others could require a “click” to enlarge or reveal them.

Here you go-

http://paulanderson.fotopic.net/p63278202.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/saltleyman/3931374032/in/set-72157622083826323/

http://www.hancoxart.com/store/steam-engines-steam-wagons-vintage-fairground/

http://mclaren-models.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_193&products_id=2888&zenid=f2150df678b10a84e00780bee48ac70e

http://www.hancoxart.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/Jh078-large.jpg

http://northwesttrucks.fotopic.net/p61995783.html

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/545_1_1002661.html

http://www.collectorsworld.net/mb10.htm

http://www.frankhornby.com/images/matchbox_tl.png

http://www.swapmeetmodels.co.uk/sold-lledo-vanguards-va39000-thames-trader-flatbed-cast-model-tate-lyle-164th-scale-p-4217.html?currency=USD

http://paulanderson.fotopic.net/p63351958.html

http://ccmv.fotopic.net/p62678983.html

http://jaspersroadhaulagephotographs.fotopic.net/p50366051.html

http://www.themodelbus.fotopic.net/p27879829.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SENTINEL-SUPER-STEAM-LORRY-TATE-&-LYLE-CC80001-CORGI_W0QQitemZ310189381364QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr;_id=&cguid=50287ae91280a0e203e09ad0ffa66de4

http://www.corgi.co.uk/shop/128/scammell-mechanical-horse—tate-and-lyle-dg199015/?from_categories=commercial

http://www.diecastdevon.co.uk/acatalog/97781.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360194216992&ih=023&category=2507&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

http://www.lylesgoldensyrup.com/NR/rdonlyres/enq266aebbhceifilvsdn6hwr5dftlzpzyij2v7dinxbxwyikfxy4gxpqiehbcv3ngapp6xx3ngm7azanespd75nuaf/LyleDelivVan1938.jpg

http://www.transportphotos.com/road/photo/HuK1539

http://www.transportphotos.com/road/photo/VS01537

http://www.transportphotos.com/road/photo/HuK1536

http://www.motoringpicturelibrary.com/preview_image.asp?lcID=28&page=18&limit=12&fleID=3627

http://www.rscollect.co.uk/y5 1927 talbot van green (Medium).jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hostajohn1/2674639292/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hostajohn1/2674638022/sizes/l/

http://www.michelin.co.uk/heritage/1955.htm

http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/File:Foden_no._10788_-_AU_6695_in_the_BCVM_09_-_(poor_image)_IMG_3855.jpg

http://www.transportphotos.com/road/photo/HuM0674

Many thanks for the pictures of T & L trucks!  keep them coming.

I’ve just read the comment from Brian Bannister (10/11/2009) regarding his dad, Bobby. He and Frank Callaghan were the leading trade unionists at T+LT. Bob’s brother Billy was also a driver at Lockfields. Tucker Price’s son worked there. Even now I could probably remember around 75% of the drivers, second men and “ancillary” staff at Locks- and their nicknames (eg Wally “Stagger” Reid, Frank “The Clockwork Mouse” Hardman, Frank “Rock” Dixon).

I was a “Buff Note Clerk”, recording returned damages, alternating 7am-3pm and 2pm-10pm shifts with George Laidlaw. Working alongside us were Johnno Johnston and Stan Armstrong. The office manager was Andy Roberts: foremen were Jack Kelly, Randall (Alf) Holford and Jack Garrity (whose brother Alec was a T+LT driver). Harry Bramwell was apparently in charge of “Miscellaneous”...

In the meantime, here are photos of another Liverpool T+L wagon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/624806934/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/624806894/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/624806852/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/624806812/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossendalewadey/624806974/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saltleyman/4425429550/
(Click where indicated to view.)

I was at Tate & Lyle Transport (T+LT) at Lockfields, although not for long- from 1977 to the end.

For those seek a photo of a T&L lorry I found this link, though it’s before my time;

http://paulanderson.fotopic.net/p63278201.html

My Dad gerry hughes worked at Tates for over 30 yrs and was a shop steward. For most of my teenage years he was fighting the closure and I remember him going to Brussels. My uncle Jack Barrow also worked there. I remember the great time we had a kids going to the panto at the empire, my dad ending up as the wellfare officer and organising day trips and how he lost his job at the closure. Mostly though I rememeber the irony when he got sa job as clerk of works for the company who demolished it on his 60th Birthday. His mates were Tommy Brown and Gerry Townley. Dad sadly passed away in 2001 with Asbestosis and Lung cancer,caused by working in the boiler house of Tates. I was unable to see the film as it wouldnt upload so if anyone could point me in the direction to get to see it I would be grateful.

in the 1950’s l worked at Tate & Lyles Southampton depot, delivering two loads of 6 tons of sugar products to shops, wholsalers etc daily.

later l progressed to the ten ton Bedford artIics, again delivering two ten ton loads daily, to shops, wjholesalers, bakeries, sweet manufacturers, and the ocean liners at Southampton docks.

We of course were dependant for our supplies from the two London Sugar refineries, three of our four Bedford Artics done the night trunk to London, leaving about 7.00 pm returning about 7.00 am, their engines barely rested. And three 8 ton rigid bedfords ran the opposite way, from London to Southampton twice a day.

Also somedays big Scamels, and Fodens used to arrive at our depot. In those days we were the kings of the road, with well maintained lorries and tankers.

Sadly, these days, the only Tate vehicles that can be seen on the roads are the occaisonal tanker, l wonder how the packet sugars gets ino the supermarkets and shops?

Last year l went to Liverpool for a few days to see the Liverpool 2008 Culture city of Europe.  I drove along the road running alongside the docks, Regent Road l think it was, saw the big old sugar silo, and the conveyer crossing the road.

I also saw a small Tate & Lyle depot on the right hand side of the road, with storage tanks and a couple of road tankers there. i even stopped and went into the small office where the young lady could not tell me where the old Sugar Refinery.

Like Love Lane, the Tate & Lyle depots have disappeared off the face of the earth.

I would be very grateful if any one has photos of old Tate & Lyle lorries.

In the 1950’s l worked at Tate & Lyles Southampton depot, delivering two loads of 6 tons of sugar products to shops, wholsalers etc daily.

later l progressed to the ten ton Bedford artics, again delivering two ten ton loads daily, to shops, wjholesalers, bakeries, sweet manufacturers, and the ocean liners at Southampton docks.

We of course were dependant for our supplies from the two London Sugar refineries, three of our four Bedford Artics done the night trunk to London, leaving about 7.00 pm returning about 7.00 am, their engines barely rested. And three 8 ton rigid bedfords ran the opposite way, from London to Southampton twice a day.

Also somedays big Scamels, and Fodens used to arrive at our depot. In those days we were the kings of the road, with well maintained lorries and tankers.

Sadly, these days, the only Tate vehicles that can be seen on the roads are the occaisonal tanker, l wonder how the packet sugars gets ino the supermarkets and shops?

Last year l went to Liverpool for a few days to see the Liverpool 2008 Culture city of Europe.  I drove along the road running alongside the docks, Regent Road l think it was, saw the big old sugar silo, and the conveyer crossing the road.

I also saw a small Tate & Lyle depot on the right hand side of the road, with storage tanks and a couple of road tankers there. i even stopped and went into the small office where the young lady could not tell me where the old Sugar Refinery.

Like Love Lane, the Tate & Lyle depots have disappeared off the face of the earth.

I would be very grateful if any one has photos of old Tate & Lyle lorries.

I’ve just watched and really enjoyed the film. It brought back memories of my dad (Bob Bannister) and all of the Tate and Lyle crowd. I remember going in to Love Lane as a child and being overwhelmed by the size of the place but always being taken aback by the friendliness of the people. I never left without a pocket full of sweets and money! Looking back and remembering there was a real sense of community in Love Lane and years later if I was ever out with my dad wed more than likely bump in to former Tate’s people and I’d be treated (and it was) to some of the old stories.  My favourite was my dad finding great overnight digs in Leominster at Mrs Chambers (who by then was well in to her 70s!) and wanting to wind up the other drivers (Frank Callaghan,Tucker Price and Oweny Moran) keeping her name and address a secret from them. So they used to try and follow him to track it down. I’ve still got visions of Tate’s lorries on a Smokey and the bandit run through the Welsh hills!!
Thanks for keeping the memory of Love Lane and all those great old scousers alive.
Brian

Thanks to Ron Noon and Bobby Austin Hillside’s Sugar Week was a resounding success. The pupils learnt about the history of sugar in Liverpool and really got to grips with the effect of the factory closure on the local community; their letters to Margaret Thatcher are realistic and emotional and you can’t quite believe they have been written by 12 year olds in 2009, nearly 30 years after the closure. Every subject area in the school got involved in the week and the finished displays around school are amazing. Bobby went down a storm and has been back since to give talks to more pupils. they are amazed by his stories and his fabulous first hand knowledge. A big thanks to all involved.

Just introduced year 7 pupils at Hillside High to the Love Lane Lives project. They have started to produce some fantastic Podcasts about the project and the ‘White Gold’ - pupils are really interested in the experiences of the Boys and Girls from the White Stuff!

The staff in the ICT department have already taken note of several Podcasts which are coming along nicely, and may even be submitted for use on this website.

Further posts to follow…

I have just read the Poem,very good! I also remember the “‘Andy Gang”,also known as “The Untouchables”.....“We can’t touch that,that’s thingy’s job”......“we can’t touch that,that’s oozit’s job”...etc.

I don’t know who else might be reading these entries,but here are a few more people I remember from my time at Tates.
  Bob Daniells, Frank Till,Ted Mercer,(his son,Jeff was also a Process Apprentice).Tommy Roach,Tommy Hepworth,Denis O’Sullivan,Joe Woods.
  On the Pans were Johnny Swords,Dickie Hart,John Jackson,Peter Haylwood,Jimmy Quinn,Jack Robbie(Robinson),Gerry Greer,Bill Worthington,Bobby Austin, to name but a few!

Gerry Townsend? Don’t you mean Gerry Townley?

JUST WATCHED LOVE LANE LIVES AND IT REMINDED ME GREAT MEMORIES.
I WAS A PROCESS APPRENTICE, STARTING 1979, TO NEAR THE TATE & LYLE CLOSURE.
JOHN PEDLETON, GLEN KEARNS, LOL WAINRIGHT, PAUL SMITH, BOB ?? WERE THE SAME YEAR APPRENTCICES. GERRY TOWSNEND WAS OUR TRAINING MANAGER. Not only did we learn sugar technology , we learnt a lot about life during our apprenticeship.Great days

An enjoyable film.It was good to see some old faces,I worked at Tates from leaving school in 1965 until the closure.My father also worked at the factory as a Process Clerk for many years.
  I started as a Process Apprentice, working in most parts of the factory eventually becoming a Pansman in No1 Refinery, finishing up as one of the Yellows Pansmen.
  After a long absence I was recently in the area,the only thing I recognized was Burlington Street bridge and that only because it was named!
  Pity there isn’t a forum on the site,it would be interesting to read other people’s recollections/stories.

I really enjoyed the film it brought back so many memories for me even though i was a youngster/teenager my dad (nicked named Wiggy) worked at tate’s for 37 years as a driver on the tanker’s and he loved every minute of it, all the people i met from tate’s at the christmas party’s at bibbys playing fields and panto’s in the empire all put on by tate’s it was a crying shame what happened they took away tate’s but they will never take away the memories.thank’s to all for sharing this adventure Jimmy Wignall Jnr.